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 US: Best President(s)?

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.mop is dead.
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PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:46 pm

Nixon also gets a bad rap because he isn't exactly the most likeable guy, unlike people like JFK, Clinton, and Obama
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SuperByNature
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PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:57 pm

.mop wrote:
Nixon also gets a bad rap because he isn't exactly the most likeable guy, unlike people like JFK, Clinton, and Obama
no, he was a likeable guy. but JFK died before he could do anything to hurt his repuation. Clinton is liked because change takes time, he was just lucky where he was. the first Bush and Reagan had a great economic policy, but they didn't get to see the benefits of that policy before clinton got in office. clinton then had a not so good economic policy, only good for that period of time. so when dubya got in office and faced an economic and housing crisis, he was easy to blame because he was the not likeable guy. he was the guy who couldn't really talk straight in front of a huge crowd, and his stumbling around words was easily mistaken for stupidity. one thing i really like about bush, is that he has been silent and hasn't bashed obama. he said something on the tonight show that i really like. Jay Leno asked him "Why don't you talk about obama?" and he replied "because i don't think its good for the nation for the former president to bash the current president." i think that quote i believe ranks up there with "A house divided against itself cannot stand"
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PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:36 pm

Super Perfect wrote:
.mop wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
.mop wrote:
Lincon will always be #1. I don't think any other president could of did what he did.

That being said Polk is underlooked alot of the time. He was the only president to ever have the national debt at zero. Clinton and Obama are both great and top 15 in my book. JFK is also really good.

Worst is proabably James Buchannon.
Please explain to me why Obama is "great."

First under him we ended an 8 year war which cannot be understated. The repeal of Dont Ask Dont tell. The execution of the most wanted man in the world, which we had been looking fo since the Clinton days. Also has signed treaties to reduce the amount of Atomic Bombs. CARD Act. Health Care bill.
as for saying Lincoln is great, i disagree. the US was founded on the belief that if a group of people feel that there rights have been violated, they have the right to dissolve their political ties with the offending nation. Lincoln broke that by annexing back the Confederacy after a brutal civil war. him and the rest of the north commanders committed war crimes by starving the Confederacy. he made a law in a country that he had no control in (abolishing slavery). now, i'm not saying that i agree with slavery, but its not in my rights to tell other groups of people what to do, and Lincoln didn't have the power to abolish slavery.

now, for Obama. the War on Terrorism isn't over. if anything, he stirred up the pot. yes, Osama is dead, but his followers now treat him like a martyr, and there have been many brutal wars because of martyrs. the war has just begun. even obama knows this. he didn't repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. he had nothing to do with that. he was just president when that happened. the president doesn't have complete control. which brings me to my next point. it wasn't Obama defeating Osama in 3 years when Bush failed to do so in 8. it was the US defeating Osama in 11 years. Obama was lucky enough to be prez while he got the tip that Osama was living in Abottabad. Bush and every president since the end of the cold war has signed treaties to reduce the amount of a bombs and hydrogen bombs. the health care bill isn't that good, and it has been compared to the canadian system which a lot of people do not like. now, i've gotten all of your points. now let me give you some points to say how obama isn't good. Obama added more to the national debt than Bush did. keep in mind, Obama has now been in office for 3 years, Bush was in office for 8 years. and what did that money, that stimulus package, go to? Whatever the states wanted to do with it. there was no restrictions on how they had to spend the money. there was very little stimulus going on. it was more like road work. now, i will talk about one positive Obama has that not many presidents have had, and that's a great foreign policy. we have less enemies now than we have had in a long time. but, Obama isn't secretary of state, he's the President, so a great foreign policy does not make him a good president.
The Confederacy was not regarded as a "country."
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SuperByNature
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PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Jarrett wrote:
Super Perfect wrote:
.mop wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
.mop wrote:
Lincon will always be #1. I don't think any other president could of did what he did.

That being said Polk is underlooked alot of the time. He was the only president to ever have the national debt at zero. Clinton and Obama are both great and top 15 in my book. JFK is also really good.

Worst is proabably James Buchannon.
Please explain to me why Obama is "great."

First under him we ended an 8 year war which cannot be understated. The repeal of Dont Ask Dont tell. The execution of the most wanted man in the world, which we had been looking fo since the Clinton days. Also has signed treaties to reduce the amount of Atomic Bombs. CARD Act. Health Care bill.
as for saying Lincoln is great, i disagree. the US was founded on the belief that if a group of people feel that there rights have been violated, they have the right to dissolve their political ties with the offending nation. Lincoln broke that by annexing back the Confederacy after a brutal civil war. him and the rest of the north commanders committed war crimes by starving the Confederacy. he made a law in a country that he had no control in (abolishing slavery). now, i'm not saying that i agree with slavery, but its not in my rights to tell other groups of people what to do, and Lincoln didn't have the power to abolish slavery.

now, for Obama. the War on Terrorism isn't over. if anything, he stirred up the pot. yes, Osama is dead, but his followers now treat him like a martyr, and there have been many brutal wars because of martyrs. the war has just begun. even obama knows this. he didn't repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. he had nothing to do with that. he was just president when that happened. the president doesn't have complete control. which brings me to my next point. it wasn't Obama defeating Osama in 3 years when Bush failed to do so in 8. it was the US defeating Osama in 11 years. Obama was lucky enough to be prez while he got the tip that Osama was living in Abottabad. Bush and every president since the end of the cold war has signed treaties to reduce the amount of a bombs and hydrogen bombs. the health care bill isn't that good, and it has been compared to the canadian system which a lot of people do not like. now, i've gotten all of your points. now let me give you some points to say how obama isn't good. Obama added more to the national debt than Bush did. keep in mind, Obama has now been in office for 3 years, Bush was in office for 8 years. and what did that money, that stimulus package, go to? Whatever the states wanted to do with it. there was no restrictions on how they had to spend the money. there was very little stimulus going on. it was more like road work. now, i will talk about one positive Obama has that not many presidents have had, and that's a great foreign policy. we have less enemies now than we have had in a long time. but, Obama isn't secretary of state, he's the President, so a great foreign policy does not make him a good president.
The Confederacy was not regarded as a "country."
yes it was. to many countries, the confederacy was considered a country. and even if it wasn't regarded as a country, that doesnt matter. they felt their rights had been infringed upon and the basis of the US was there comes a time when political ties have to be dissolved if rights are being infringed upon. they seceeded, they dissolved their ties, so US laws didn't apply to them. therefore, the immancipation proclamation was illegal
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PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:02 pm

Super Perfect wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
Super Perfect wrote:
.mop wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
.mop wrote:
Lincon will always be #1. I don't think any other president could of did what he did.

That being said Polk is underlooked alot of the time. He was the only president to ever have the national debt at zero. Clinton and Obama are both great and top 15 in my book. JFK is also really good.

Worst is proabably James Buchannon.
Please explain to me why Obama is "great."

First under him we ended an 8 year war which cannot be understated. The repeal of Dont Ask Dont tell. The execution of the most wanted man in the world, which we had been looking fo since the Clinton days. Also has signed treaties to reduce the amount of Atomic Bombs. CARD Act. Health Care bill.
as for saying Lincoln is great, i disagree. the US was founded on the belief that if a group of people feel that there rights have been violated, they have the right to dissolve their political ties with the offending nation. Lincoln broke that by annexing back the Confederacy after a brutal civil war. him and the rest of the north commanders committed war crimes by starving the Confederacy. he made a law in a country that he had no control in (abolishing slavery). now, i'm not saying that i agree with slavery, but its not in my rights to tell other groups of people what to do, and Lincoln didn't have the power to abolish slavery.

now, for Obama. the War on Terrorism isn't over. if anything, he stirred up the pot. yes, Osama is dead, but his followers now treat him like a martyr, and there have been many brutal wars because of martyrs. the war has just begun. even obama knows this. he didn't repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. he had nothing to do with that. he was just president when that happened. the president doesn't have complete control. which brings me to my next point. it wasn't Obama defeating Osama in 3 years when Bush failed to do so in 8. it was the US defeating Osama in 11 years. Obama was lucky enough to be prez while he got the tip that Osama was living in Abottabad. Bush and every president since the end of the cold war has signed treaties to reduce the amount of a bombs and hydrogen bombs. the health care bill isn't that good, and it has been compared to the canadian system which a lot of people do not like. now, i've gotten all of your points. now let me give you some points to say how obama isn't good. Obama added more to the national debt than Bush did. keep in mind, Obama has now been in office for 3 years, Bush was in office for 8 years. and what did that money, that stimulus package, go to? Whatever the states wanted to do with it. there was no restrictions on how they had to spend the money. there was very little stimulus going on. it was more like road work. now, i will talk about one positive Obama has that not many presidents have had, and that's a great foreign policy. we have less enemies now than we have had in a long time. but, Obama isn't secretary of state, he's the President, so a great foreign policy does not make him a good president.
The Confederacy was not regarded as a "country."
yes it was. to many countries, the confederacy was considered a country. and even if it wasn't regarded as a country, that doesnt matter. they felt their rights had been infringed upon and the basis of the US was there comes a time when political ties have to be dissolved if rights are being infringed upon. they seceeded, they dissolved their ties, so US laws didn't apply to them. therefore, the immancipation proclamation was illegal
I'm pretty sure the government needs to approve things like this? Because US land is still US land. That's like saying, "Come to my house, I seceeded from the union, therefore pot is legal, violence is encouraged, and you can legally shoot everyone that walks by, just because it's on "my" property."
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SuperByNature
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Posts : 824
Location : Montana

PostSubject: Re: US: Best President(s)?   Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:46 pm

Jarrett wrote:
Super Perfect wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
Super Perfect wrote:
.mop wrote:
Jarrett wrote:
.mop wrote:
Lincon will always be #1. I don't think any other president could of did what he did.

That being said Polk is underlooked alot of the time. He was the only president to ever have the national debt at zero. Clinton and Obama are both great and top 15 in my book. JFK is also really good.

Worst is proabably James Buchannon.
Please explain to me why Obama is "great."

First under him we ended an 8 year war which cannot be understated. The repeal of Dont Ask Dont tell. The execution of the most wanted man in the world, which we had been looking fo since the Clinton days. Also has signed treaties to reduce the amount of Atomic Bombs. CARD Act. Health Care bill.
as for saying Lincoln is great, i disagree. the US was founded on the belief that if a group of people feel that there rights have been violated, they have the right to dissolve their political ties with the offending nation. Lincoln broke that by annexing back the Confederacy after a brutal civil war. him and the rest of the north commanders committed war crimes by starving the Confederacy. he made a law in a country that he had no control in (abolishing slavery). now, i'm not saying that i agree with slavery, but its not in my rights to tell other groups of people what to do, and Lincoln didn't have the power to abolish slavery.

now, for Obama. the War on Terrorism isn't over. if anything, he stirred up the pot. yes, Osama is dead, but his followers now treat him like a martyr, and there have been many brutal wars because of martyrs. the war has just begun. even obama knows this. he didn't repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. he had nothing to do with that. he was just president when that happened. the president doesn't have complete control. which brings me to my next point. it wasn't Obama defeating Osama in 3 years when Bush failed to do so in 8. it was the US defeating Osama in 11 years. Obama was lucky enough to be prez while he got the tip that Osama was living in Abottabad. Bush and every president since the end of the cold war has signed treaties to reduce the amount of a bombs and hydrogen bombs. the health care bill isn't that good, and it has been compared to the canadian system which a lot of people do not like. now, i've gotten all of your points. now let me give you some points to say how obama isn't good. Obama added more to the national debt than Bush did. keep in mind, Obama has now been in office for 3 years, Bush was in office for 8 years. and what did that money, that stimulus package, go to? Whatever the states wanted to do with it. there was no restrictions on how they had to spend the money. there was very little stimulus going on. it was more like road work. now, i will talk about one positive Obama has that not many presidents have had, and that's a great foreign policy. we have less enemies now than we have had in a long time. but, Obama isn't secretary of state, he's the President, so a great foreign policy does not make him a good president.
The Confederacy was not regarded as a "country."
yes it was. to many countries, the confederacy was considered a country. and even if it wasn't regarded as a country, that doesnt matter. they felt their rights had been infringed upon and the basis of the US was there comes a time when political ties have to be dissolved if rights are being infringed upon. they seceeded, they dissolved their ties, so US laws didn't apply to them. therefore, the immancipation proclamation was illegal
I'm pretty sure the government needs to approve things like this? Because US land is still US land. That's like saying, "Come to my house, I seceeded from the union, therefore pot is legal, violence is encouraged, and you can legally shoot everyone that walks by, just because it's on "my" property."
did the british government have to approve of the US? or did the US say they were free and then stopped paying british taxes and made their own laws?
there is a difference between throwing a hissy fit and trying to solely break away from the US, and a large group of people who are tired of the US constantly hurting their rights.
and you might be saying that slavery is a morally wrong thing that hurts black people's rights. that may be true, but the north didn't care about black people's rights. they just wanted to control the south. the entire south economy was based on slavery. so, if you remove the south economy, then they have to depend on you for everything. which is what the south wanted. now, you may be thinking "wtf? yes they did care". well, if they did care, then why didn't they instill black rights faster? an argument to that is, of course, the backlash to that would have been huge in the south, and you have to take babysteps or else they will fight you and try to seceed again. well, why didn't they do it when they placed the south under martial law? they would have had the means to do it easily, but they chose not to. the only person who cared about black rights was Thomas Jefferson, but he cut stuff about slavery and black rights from the deceleration of independence (early drafts talk about black rights and emancipation) because other forefathers said "we are hear to talk about independence, not emancipation."

Back to the main argument, I believe George Washington was the greatest president. not just because he was the first or the most discussed, but because of the way he kept this young nation, who had different ideas on how the nation should be run, from running into the ground. he tried (and succeeded for a long time) to keep the nation under one political party. most of the nation's problems in the past 100 years have been political parties and how the democrats would get in office, try to do good with their policies, but before any change could kick in, the nation would vote them out, put in republicans. republicans would get into office, try to do good with their policies, but before any change could kick in, the nation would vote them out and put back in democrats. while people in the middle who have the best ideas do not get voted in because they alienate both parties.
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